Talk:Deleted scene
I mentioned something to Shran about this on IRC and forgot to follow up on it, but now I see that two examples of this are now up on Memory Alpha:Pages for deletion: Luta and Carnat. First I would like to post Jörg's comment, then my proposition: :"We do not know if the scene was filmed and then cut for time reasons or was simply never filmed at all. If you take a look at the TNG and DS9 scripts that are available online, some seem to be really early versions, including slightly different plots and additional characters, so they are not always reliable (only when it comes to spelling, they come in handy). We keep Martin Madden because he was included in a deleted scene available as a special feature on DVDs, so we know for sure, that his scenes were filmed, as we have visual evidence. In the case of carnat and Luta, we have no clue. Besides, the USS Garuda article was deleted for the same reason - no footage exists, never mentioned in the episode - deleted." I agree that there is a difference between a filmed deleted scene and an unfilmed and deleted script reference, however, it seems there are several references like this that have been included and disputed on M/A for quite some time. In some cases, these articles have been deleted or redirected (USS Garuda, IRW D'ridthau, USS Spector), others have yet to be pointed out, resolved, or sufficiently justified (Stolpan, USS Hemingway). In some cases, these references are simply cut lines that are extremely useful ("The [[IKS Bortas|''Bortas]] should have twice the firepower of a Bird of Prey." or that the USS Enterprise-C had a crew of 700), and in other cases many are moderately intriguing to read (again Stolpan), or completely pointless, but referenced nonetheless (again Luta). Regardless, perhaps we could create a page collecting these articles whose sole existence is based on deleted scenes, for various points of interest. This is an age old argument/concern on this site, and perhaps this way we can keep everyone (the "completionists" and "perfectionists") happy by including all production information but segregating it to an appropriate section of MA. Not only would this promote tidying up the site from one time cut references that were at one point valid but removed based on various production constraints, but also would make a compelling list of "what could have been" (without deleting an individuals contribution). To clarify, this page would serve as a "catch all" for all ''articles that were created based on deleted scenes, such as I listed above. They could be organized by series, or they could be an alphabetical listing of entries, in a "list" format. Other than that, I think articles based on filmed references that were cut (Martin Madden) deserve a little more attention, such as Jorg noted. As for cut script references associated with existing articles, like Stolpan's reference in Sisko's article, as well as the cut crew size and firepower references of the Bop and the E-C (despite my personal feelings about the potential lost potential of those references), should simply be included as part of the articles background information. Thoughts, ideas, suggestions? --Alan del Beccio 18:01, 27 October 2006 (UTC) ::I like the idea, and think that it would be well worth tying into the current deleted scene article. I also like the idea of keeping script, but (may or may) not be filmed scenes. They do add to the intrigue and interest factor of the articles. All we have to do is note that the reference was in the script but never made it into the final filmed/released/whatever (in the case of STII and STVI) version. -- Sulfur 18:29, 27 October 2006 (UTC) :That makes a lot of sense to me. If we already have an article about a subject mentioned in one episode and cut from another episode, we can still add the information from the second episode to that article, although, as Alan said, just as background information. :Creating a site that collects all cut references would be a good idea as well, we just would have to make pretty clear what we want to see on that page. For example: The script of Star Trek: First Contact that is available on the net is a very early draft. Would we allow characters or things mentioned in that script to get their own sub-entry on the proposed cut references page? Or would we just allow scenes that were cut (either because they were not filmed at all or because the filmed footage didn't make it into the final movie) from the final draft of a given script? Another good place for the information about, say Luta or carnat, would also be on the relevant episode page. We already have some "cut/deleted scenes" sections in a few episodes, the information could be put there as well. :We just have to make pretty clear, be it on the episode page, a regular article or the proposed new cut references page, that those subjects were indeed not mentioned in the final episodes but are just remnants of the scripts or ended up on the cutting room floor. And we should always check if something did make it into the episode or not, or even if a name was changed between what is written in the script and what was said in the episode (Rebecca Smith anyone? ;-)) --Jörg 18:36, 27 October 2006 (UTC) I was thinking that it would be formatted in more of an encyclopedia/dictionary entry list-- slightly more abbreviated than what you might find in a normal article. Renamed references would be redirects, and references deleted altogether would be listed somewhat like I have presented below. Understandably, in the case of Stolpan, as much as I condensed it, it is still somewhat lengthy, suggesting that this might have to be based on series if the page starts to get too long. --Alan del Beccio 19:04, 27 October 2006 (UTC) :::I think having a separate article to just "dump" all those references would be repeating the situation we already had with "nitpicks" on episode articles. In that case, we decided that it would be better to have such information (if relevant at all) on the page about the item/person in question, not on a generic page about the whole episode. The suggested situation here is similar. Why should we add information from all possible scripts to just one page, if we could add each bit to the background section of an individual episode article instead? Doing it that way would even be similar to what we already do with non-canon characters from novels - add them to the article about that novel, not have a separate article for all novel characters. -- Cid Highwind 11:03, 28 October 2006 (UTC) ::::Cid brings up a good point... but, we also have the non-canon characters pages, which lists and describes non-canon characters appearing in novels and comics. I see no reason why we can't do the same with deleted references. This idea has my full support. --From Andoria with Love 06:05, 29 October 2006 (UTC) Example of page content ; B: * Becky ; D: * [[IRW D'ridthau|IRW D'ridthau]] ; G: * USS ''Garuda: A [[Nebula class|''Nebula-class]] Federation starship that stopped at Deep Space 9 in late 2371. Lieutenant Commander Syvar was assigned as ship’s science officer at this time. (DS9: "Shakaar") ; M: * Martin Madden ; S: * ''Spector'', USS * Stolpan: A Romulan male who worked at the Federation embassy on Romulus as member of the kitchen staff. He became friends with Benjamin Sisko, but was later arrested by the Tal Shiar for "political improprieties". Sisko was prepared to go to their headquarters and convince them to set him free, however, Curzon Dax managed to pursuade him not to go, as he may have ended up in prison as well - and that would do Stolpan no good. Upon recalling the incident to Julian Bashir in 2370, who asked if Sisko was able to free Stolpan, Sisko smiled and promised to tell him when he returned from Arawath colony. (DS9: "The Wire") ; W: * Rebecca White